John Piper’s Endorsement of Mark Driscoll

3 10 2008

There’s a huge debate going on between Michael Newham, Ingrid Schlueter, and Steve Camp over the fact that John Piper would let Mark Driscoll come to the DG National Conference and therefore was endorsing Mark Driscoll.  Honestly, I take the stance that it was completely fine for Driscoll to speak at the conference.

We all have problems and Mark Driscoll is no exception, but to say that he cannot preach is ridiculous because then none of us could preach.  I separate over doctrinal issues, not issues of spiritual maturity or orthopraxy.

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15 responses

3 10 2008
Michael Krahn

My advice: ignore Ingrid and Steve. No one will ever be orthodox enough for them unless they’re made in the exact mold of John MacArthur. We have better things to do than argue with our own team about who’s good enough to hang with John Piper.

Steve Camp put out some good tunes back in the day… way before you young’uns were even born. Check out his albums from the late 80’s – dude can sing.

4 10 2008
Coram Deo

I separate over doctrinal issues, not issues of spiritual maturity or orthopraxy.

Greetings!

What type(s) of “doctrinal issues” are in view in the statement above? Are you referring to a verbal/intellectual assent to the fundamental truth claims of orthodox Christianity? I’m curious on this point because Biblically speaking I wonder how else a Christian is to affirm orthodoxy apart from its real life outworking through orthopraxy.

In Christ,
CD

4 10 2008
Andrew

CD: I am referring to the 5 fundamental doctrines. That of the virgin birth, inerrancy of Scripture, salvation by faith alone, the resurrection, and His second coming.

I realize there are some issues that are not fundamental but would cause some to draw a line in certain places, but the issue with Mark Driscoll have been revolving around the language that he uses in the pulpit. I personally don’t think that’s a place to draw any lines.

I hope that answers your question.

5 10 2008
Bob

Steve Camp seems to have made it his life’s goal to destroy Mark Driscoll. I guess he has nothing better to do.

I love Mark Driscoll and his preaching. He isn’t perfect and occasionally I cringe during a sermon, but his passion for lost souls and his love for Jesus is unparalleled. His passion for Biblical truth puts me to shame.

John Piper is able to see that and that’s why he has no problem letting MD speak at DG Conference. John knows Mark’s heart and it is in love with Christ.

5 10 2008
Michael Krahn

Spot on, Bob.

31 10 2008
Tom

Personally I do believe it is a big deal about the language Driscoll uses from the pulpit. What does that kind of language tell our children and those who are new believers?
Like it or not, children and new believers make role models out of leaders in the Church.
My children are grown up now, but I can tell (hypothetically speaking) if one of my children came home after Wednesday night youth Bible study and swore and they said the youth pastor swore, so it must be alright.
I would confront that pastor.
Actually years ago, one of the elders at my Church preached and during that sermon actually swore to give emphasis to his point. The problem was that after he swore I for one lost concentration on the actual sermon itself. I wasn’t the only one either.

1 11 2008
Andrew

Tom: I see what you’re saying Tom, but you also need to remember where Driscoll is coming from on some of these things. First of all, the “bad” words that he uses cannot be dogmatically argued as sin, but that’s a totally different subject; but trust me when I say I’ve been in debates and not all “bad” words are black and white issues.

Second of all, going on the presupposition that not all bad words are really bad, we can then look at his surroundings. He comes from Seattle which is a pagan city and when he gets up to preach on Sundays and says a few bad words, it doesn’t even phase the people in the congregation. In fact, compared to the congregations lifestyle, he’s probably considered pretty clean.

So, what you take as offensive and distracting, someone else might not, especially the younger generation. Driscoll is a work in progress, but aren’t we all? He was clean at the DG conference and he’s come a long ways from even last year, in fact I haven’t heard any bad words in awhile. So, I would take that into consideration.

22 01 2009
cathy cogdell

Wow, why are we even having a discussion about the use of offense, crude, vulgar language being used by pastors? I am amazed and saddened by what I heard in many of Mark Driscoll’s teachings and preaching and find him without excuse. He’s a work in progress? Well, it’s time to grow up and minister in a way that’s befitting a self-proclaim “man of God” I agree, enough is enough.

19 04 2009
Josh Parker

Marc Driscoll profanes something that is holy. That is a basic fundamental. Holiness is a command. Jesus is not a condiment or a passing trend.

His contradiction of the command is habitual. There is a big difference between a stumble and apostasy. Driscoll shows signs of apostasy. Cursing in the pulpit is man’s desperate attempt to make the gospel relative to the world. Jesus is holy and his nature is incorruptible. Men who try to bend the gospel so that it is not offensive to the unrepentant sinners are wolves. They are idolators and cannot inherit the kingdom of God unless they put to death (mortify) the malice that is in their hearts.

All of the worldly pastors are of the flesh and they cannot please God. If they want to feed the sheep, then they must forsake the world and not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Their fruit proves who they belong to. They still belong to the world. Fame, vain glory, and worldly status are vanity. Like Solomons says, “It is meaningless and a chasing after the wind.”

2 05 2009
beth wilson

There seems to be alot of self righteousness among people. I honestly think that if some of you would have lived in Jesus time you would have criticized his use of language and who he hung out with. Jesus had nothing flattering to say of the religious leaders of his day and I can see why, they were judging by the outward appearance and not the heart. People seems so concerned about the use of “harsh” language that they must not spend anytime at any of our public schools including elementary. I am not excusing bad language but I have listened to alot of Marks sermons online and have yet to hear anything vulgar. Let us also remember another well known pastor who was known for some bad language but whom God used in a mighty way that would be Martin Luther.

5 05 2009
Aaron

There is plenty to be upset about. Driscoll is off base and needs be corrected. Regardless of where he lives, he shouldn’t be blasting the congregants with any swear words. The Gospel is not to be lowered. We are called to be different from the world, even in Babylon. I don’t disagree that driscoll says some powerful things and is doctrinally true, but he’s suggested so many mystics and contemplatives that i’m not sure he’s as grounded as he claims to be, or rather, as others claim he is. Check it out here: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?c=1&more=1&p=199

4 08 2009
Jordan

From what I understand, Driscoll has calmed down a lot in recent years.

I have to agree with one of the posters here, however, and say that despite Mark’s reputation as the “cussing pastor”, I’ve never actually heard him cuss in a sermon. And I’ve listened to a LOT of his sermons.

I’ve heard him get fired up. I’ve heard him call men (such as myself) out using intense and harsh language… not cussing or swearing, but with intensity that some may find uncomfortable.

Some may find his jokes a little off-color at times. I, admittedly, have a fairly high tolerance for that sort of thing… which probably isn’t a good thing, but it’s what I grew up with. Mark has expressed regret for some of the things he’s said in his earlier years. It’s really cool to see how the Holy Spirit has used him in spite of himself… heck, it’s cool to see how the Holy Spirit uses any of us failures, in spite or ourselves.

Probably the biggest criticism came regarding that Song of Solomon sermon he preached in Scotland many years ago. I read a transcript, and wow… while I was able to appreciate the things he was saying as a married man with a healthy sex life with my wife, I thought his commentary and joking was a little over the top. But hey, MacArthur and Piper called him on it… and while MacArthur went nuts and basically wrote Driscoll off, Piper handled things a little better and Driscoll heeded his council and removed the sermon… I believe he called it a “trainwreck” in one interview.

Anyways, just wanted to offer my two cents… probably years late as I just read this and haven’t looked at the dates of these comments I’m responding to. Driscoll is a God-fearing, Jesus-loving man of God. Piper, while having his differences, fully endorses Mark and that’s good enough for me.

In closing, seriously, try to find some quotes with Mark Driscoll “cussing” on the Internet. Google it or something. You won’t find anything… I think I heard him say, “Get the hell out!” one time when referring to a false teacher in his congregation who was trying to take over his church or something. I think that’s about all you’ll find.

Give him a listen instead of basing your opinions solely on the opinions of ultra-conservative fundamentalist bloggers. (I say that with all due respect, and no offense intended. I have deep respect and love for those who have deep convictions to maintain purity in this filthy culture of ours.)

Love you guys,
Jordan

12 02 2010
Matt Singleton

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump

To me all this says is that you can talk all day long about the sovereingty of God. But how majestic can your God be when you blaspheme him to His face?

It is the audacity and perversion of this generation to think that publicly defying God’s word doesn’t matter as long as you say good things about God.

What about the saying that it is better to tell God no and follow him than to tell God yes and not follow him.

To me this is very simple. Piper figures that driscoll is succesful. So he is compromising the faith to get more fame and money. Meanwhile his pius followers are warping the faith to keep the scam alive.

So those of you who are putting up with this. i am sure you are going to have lots of athiest laughing about how hypocritical Christianity is since John Piper preaches that cussing is ok as long as you are a succesful minister.

I amy sound harsh, but I am tired of this blatant idolotry. You want exalt these “pastors” as “holy men” just because they are selling books and getting famous. Most you don’t know these men at all.
Jesus said that you should not call any man good.
Yet all I here is a bunch of kissing up about how holy a man is once he makes it on TV or the Radio or even the NET.

This is not Biblical. You need to Love God and follow him alone. Yes you should love your neighbor but spreading sin is not loving your neighbor.

Unless mark has publicly apologize for his public sins there is no point talking about grace.

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